Conversation at work - Could this be another Karl?

[Caffeinejunkie]

The following conversation was forwarded to me under the heading "He's just like KP".

Now I know both parties and while they agree their conversations take on a RG-KP theme, they argue as to who is more like KP.

Make up your own minds and let me know.

(Names have been changed to protect the innocent/guilty)
"First person" :
  YOU KNOW THAT thing about birds on lorries jumping at the same time
"Second person" :
  yes
"Second person" :
  what about it?
"First person" :
  well i think the lorry will weigh less in certain circumstances
"Second person" :
  what circumstances
  bear in mind here, this isnt an area of science thats open for debate.
"First person" :
  ok
  you have your lorry
  but the bird cages are really high
  when the birds fly they are pushing down with their wings
  BUT
"Second person" :
  yup
  k
"First person" :
  if they stop flying they drop
  while they are droping they are not push enough air down to support their weight
  ergo the lorry is lighter
"Second person" :
  what are they falling through?
"First person" :
  the air?
"Second person" :
  taadaa
  they are pushing the air down as they fall
"First person" :
  this isnt a bird shaped column
"Second person" :
  it doesnt matter
"First person" :
  they are falling because they arent pushing enough air down
"Second person" :
  the weight stays the same
  yes, they are falling because they're not pushing enough air to stay in one spot
  but while they're falling they are pushing the air below them with the force of their weight
"First person" :
  im skepical
"Second person" :
  I know
  doesnt mean its not true
"First person" :
  what about - they are in a vacuum
"Second person" :
  then they couldnt be flying
"First person" :
  they jumped
"Second person" :
  and
"First person" :
  probably cos they couldnt breath
"Second person" :
  actually they'd be exploding, but thats not the point
"First person" :
  and while falling the lorry weiaghs less
"Second person" :
  when they jumped they exerted a downward force.  For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.  There jump up would have pushed the lorry down.
  pushing something down equates to weight
  I'm sure the physics works out exactly so that that becomes canceled out the moment they land again
  if they havent exploded that is 
"Second person" :
  I can see where your problem is.
  your idea about just before they fall they are weightless
  its not true
  you're never weightless
"Second person" :
  when you're falling it simulates being weightless, but thats only your perception because you're acelerating at the same rate as gravity .
"First person" :
  youve jumped
  the scales have dipped
  returned to zero
  you stop in mid air
  you are not pushing down on the air yet
"Second person" :
  you are
"First person" :
  no you arent
"Second person" :
  yes you are
"First person" :
  no
  you are at the tipping point
"Second person" :
  there is no tipping point
"First person" :
  your speed in either direction is zero
"Second person" :
  your speed while you're on the ground is zero
  it doesnt mean you're not pushing down
"First person" :
  if your hand was below the body you wouldnt feel any weight
"Second person" :
  you dont anyway
  you're also working on the misaprehension that air is weightless
"First person" :
  no im not
  the body isnt acting on the air in any way
"Second person" :
  yes
  it
  is
  it just hasnt pushed it out of the way yet
"First person" :
  is the air being moved by the object?
"Second person" :
  its being pressed
"First person" :
  not by the object
"Second person" :
  look.  you can argue the toss over this as much as you want
  it doesnt change the fact that your wrong
  observably wrong
"First person" :
  but you cant expalain it
"Second person" :
  this isnt just a thought experiment.  This is backed up by observable science
  in a closed system the mass is constant, wherever the items are inside the closed system
  you cant find a loophole
  as i said yesterday.  the laws of physics arent going to turn around and say, "hang on a sec.  You've got me there"

[Barrylad]

No.

[Dam Helder]

I tried reading the start of that three times and I still couldn't work out what they were talking about.

[Caffeinejunkie]

Lol, perhaps I could have explained that better. They were referring to a question on QI about a lorry full of chickens. As long as the sides are closed, even if all the chickens jump in the air the lorry will still weigh the same.

[Badlands]

Do the chicken have teeth?

[CantSayBien]

Second person is right by the way

[monkeysandthat]

haaa. that was quite funny to read. neither are they a karl though.

[Bret]

"A thermos keeps cold stuff cold but keeps hot stuff hot. So how does it know which one to do?"

You need something closer to that to claim Karldom.

[Tomkerr93]

Karl would never say 'ergo'

[Earplugs Are Gay]

YOU KNOW THAT thing about birds on lorries jumping at the same time

Don't even know what the hell this is supposed to mean, so none of the rest made any sense.

Also, you clearly invented that conversation in your head. It did not actually happen. Cute of you, though.

[mars bah bah bah]

Conjecture. Cuntish of you, though.

[Caffeinejunkie]

I couldn't make up half of their arguments if I tried.
I suppose I'm too close to it really.

I do laugh listening to them. Other popular topics include the moon landing conspiracies and perpetual motion.

[Scotland Rocks!]

YOU KNOW THAT thing about birds on lorries jumping at the same time

Don't even know what the hell this is supposed to mean, so none of the rest made any sense.

Also, you clearly invented that conversation in your head. It did not actually happen. Cute of you, though.

CJ, meet EAG.

Now ignore him forever.

[Bidlin]

The "myth" is that a truck driver would make his bird cargo fly in order to weight less when crossing a bridge. This wont work as the birds are constantly pushing air at the truck to keep aloft so the weight stays the same.

First person is right. Jumping pushes the truck downwards. And then free-falling does not exert a force at the truck. Although mass of the system stays constant, weight does not.

The truck is not a closed system to Earths gravity. It's just closed for aerodynamics. For jumping it doesn't matter. This is where the second person is confused I think.

So second person is more Karl. He goes a bit "wouldn't 'appen" in the end. Still, not really even close to Karlness IMO.

[Leisure Pirate]

tl;dr